An Idea: A New DW Community for Those Who Love Feedback

[paulamcg]

Do you write Harry Potter fic, or is there at least some older HP fic that you’d still like people to read and review? Would you like to have the members of a small community comment on the fic of your choice and discuss it with you? In return, would you be willing to read a (not too long) HP fic – also beyond your “sweet spot” – and comment on it?

In Snowflake Challenge, when discussing wishes, (in particular my wish number five, here), I found out that I was not the only one interested in some more fanwork-related interaction on DW. A few days ago a conversation here gave me suddenly an idea, which I developed a bit at once.

My preliminary suggestion is that we found a DW community called perhaps something like All Owls’ Fic Club – or All Owls’ Fanwork Club.

Because I’m hopelessly limited to the HP fandom, I can just hope that there are enough people around who still write (also) HP fic, or are at least interested in reading HP fic and still discussing their own older HP fic. Those who make other types of HP fanwork could join, too (unless they feel it’s not fair that reading a fic takes more effort than receiving their work in order to comment). On the other hand, the community wouldn’t need to attract many people.

For instance, if we are just five who want to become fully active members, each of us could post a fic (of no bigger word count than 3000 – or 1500, or 5000, according to what we agree – or another fanwork) once a month. Every week there would be one new work to write a review on and discuss in comments. (The reviews could be posted also on AO3 if that’s where the author prefers to have all feedback collected.) Non-members could be welcome to comment, but the author could also decide to lock the post for only the members to see. Perhaps someone would like to post also (parts of longer) WiP. Concrit could be allowed – naturally just together with some positive points – but authors could also mention what kind of feeback they wish to get.

Please tell me if you are – or if you know someone who is – interested in sharing fanwork in this way!

Comments

[author_by_night]

I would be VERY interested. Do it!

WiP. Concrit could be allowed – naturally just together with some positive points – but authors could also mention what kind of feeback they wish to get.

I think that's a good idea, and maybe allow the option to repost if someone, after feedback, decides to retool. We could also have a beta reader roster; that might also help people's fics get read, because then the beta reader might say "hey, I edited this fic, go read it."

I also like the idea of people posting really old fics they KNOW need to be retooled, but aren't sure where to start.

But again, those are things the writers would need to empphasize/ask for. Maybe use tags, like Ao3 does?

[paulamcg]

Yay! I’m so glad you like the idea.

Yes, why not use tags, too? But perhaps the authors could include notes in their headers, mentioning what kind of comments they’d like to have and whether the fic is an old one to be revised. And I think that naturally the revised fic could be posted – also before it’s that writer’s week for posting again, but then the other members could choose to comment or not to comment.

I’ve thought that the members would be committed to commenting at least once on every new fanwork entry – so that a beta reader’s rec would not be needed. But why not allow posts for asking for or offering beta services.

[goddess47]

There are a lot of folk who write HP fic of varying types... so you should be able to get at least a handful of folk to start with...

A problem may be that HP folk have really silo'd themselves. I'm primarily a Snarry person and that group is regularly active, thanks to folk like Torino. And there's a good Drarry group out there that overlaps with the Snarry fandom.

But, there's a group of HGSS folk who don't seem to overlap with the slash folk. The het folk and the slash folk seem to keep themselves fairly separate. Add the gen folk and the NextGen folk and the Fantastic Beast folk, and you have groups that don't talk to one another for the most part. There are overlaps, of course, but I'm suspecting not that many.

So if it's a small group and someone's working on a, say, Harry/Pansy story, I have no personal interest since I can't see that pairing. I wouldn't write it, but I could work with a not too long Ginny/Luna story. So I do read femme-slash and het, but I'm picky on the pairings. And I don't know if the Harry/Pansy person would work through my Harry/Severus story... so requiring feedback from folk may be awkward, if you see where I'm going with that.

Also, I think you'd have to decide if you want to discuss existing works or provide concrit for WIPs. I'm not sure doing both in the same comm is a good thing, but that may be me.

With the above caveats, I'm cautiously interested.

You may want to start a comm, and make a poll (or an interest post) to see what folk are interested in doing... you can use fandomcalendar and we can approach a couple of folk to help solicit interest from a variety of folk.

Starting small is good... and it sounds like a good idea!

[paulamcg]

Thank you so much for your cautious interest – yes, for telling me about the problems, too.

I want to still believe that it’s possible to find a handful of people who are willing to read widely, about any HP characters and pairings – or at least about those written by the others who join.

It’s funny that I’ve thought my interests are relatively narrow, because it seems most people I meet on DW write also in other fandoms. It’s interesting to hear about all those “silos”. Perhaps the Remus/Sirius and James/Lily silo is / silos are on Tumblr? But I’d rather discuss fic of varying types! Maybe our community could lead to more overlapping and talking to each other!

Yes, thank you for saying what we can do! I hope some more people will still comment here, and we’ll see what they think about the possibility of posting either completed work or WIPs. I’ve never started (or even modded) a community. I didn’t even know about fandomcalendar! But as Writ (to whom I’ll reply tomorrow, as I must go to sleep now), too, agrees, we can start small.

[author_by_night]

I want to still believe that it’s possible to find a handful of people who are willing to read widely, about any HP characters and pairings – or at least about those written by the others who join.


I don't... know. I was in a fest and literally everyone stuck to their preferred pairings. And to be honest, sometimes it's also a matter of what you can believe as plausible. On the other hand, I think that if there were emphasis on trying to give other people's work a fair shot, even if it wouldn't necessarily be something you'd normally read, that could work.

I'm in a critique group IRL. There are stories I wouldn't necessarily pick up and read on my own, but I still have to read them and provide feedback. It's a little different because it's a matter of an actual obligation, not a hobby, but there is a balance to be had, is what I'm saying.

Also, gen is one way to solve this problem. (Of course, most of what I write is either gen or romance that almost... reads as gen, because of the focus on other characters.)

[paulamcg]

Thank you for commenting again here!

I think I can understand what you and goddess74 mean. You’ve had no interest in reading about pairings which you can’t imagine working, is that right? And it must be true that a lot of people stick to their favourite pairings also in what they read, or at least have particular pairings they refuse to read.

But perhaps the people interested in the kind of interaction I’ve had in mind are in the fandom not only for particular pairings but also for (attempts at) good storytelling and good writing. They might be curious to see how a writer can make an improbable pairing work, and willing to point out what is done well in a fic – for instance, the description of the setting – even in case they can’t enjoy the sex scene and they even skip it. For those who only want to enjoy their OTP, gen would not solve the problem.

In any case, as has been said above, too, we’d see – perhaps after making introduction posts – if we’d be happy enough to read each other’s pairings. I wouldn’t like the reading of some members’ fic to turn out to be an unpleasant obligation to anyone who’s made the final decision to join.

[writcraft]

Hi! I'm really thrilled to see you're thinking about this and I definitely agree it's a great idea and something I would definitely be interested in subject to time and so on. I also agree with your post and other comments, that it doesn't need to be a big group exercise and just a handful of participants to trial it would be absolutely fine.

One suggestion I did think might be interesting is if the piece is 'workshopped' before posting to AO3. I think there's something about the public nature of con-crit on AO3 that can be daunting/intimidating, and might also suggest to random readers they too could critique the piece (which the author might feel less comfy with). It could be structured where initial fic posts and the feedback are locked to community members so the feedback takes place in a 'safe' space? You could of course make more public open access posts too, to generate interest in the community, but it would mean a lot of the critique would be more private. If part of the initiative is designed to generate reviews on AO3 too, you could always combine it with a commitment to comment of members' finished pieces when they get them up on AO3 with things people particularly enjoyed about the final product.

I do agree with the comment above there might be some issue in terms of who is happy to read what pairings, but I think there might be a way of dealing with that when you see who signs up! A 'header' style sign-up would also allow authors to note what levels of crit they are happy with, i.e. 'I love con crit, don't hold anything back!!! I need help with structure, story, EVERYTHING' to 'I'm feeling a bit fragile about this fic, and it's really X I'm struggling to fix as opposed to extensive crit on style' and so on.

This is such a super idea and I really do hope I'll be able to participate <3

[paulamcg]

Yay! I’m thrilled you think this is a super idea! Now I do believe it is possible to get together a suitably small group for starting a community for mutual fic reviews. Before posting any fic and committing ourselves to reviewing the other members’ fic, we could first make introduction posts and mention which characters and pairings we write about.

Yes, I think fic posts should have headers in which the authors describe what kind of feedback they’d like to have – and whether the fic is a recent or an older published story, or a draft. Don’t you think that every time the author could decide whether to make a public or a locked post? When thanking for a review, the author could ask – or not ask – the reviewer to post it also on AO3.

I originally thought that fic posted in the community would be rather recent but completed and polished, possibly beta’ed and already published on AO3. (That’s because of my personal interests, as I’ve had a beta – for my fest fics – for a few months now, but I crave for comments from readers when most of what I publish – in fests or othewise – hardly gets even hits on AO3.) When I understood that some people still read in HP fandom but spend more time on writing for other fandoms, or write a long HP fic and can’t post new short HP fic once a month, I thought they could post excerpts of WiPs or even very old fic. And then someone else pointed out that someone posting a very old fic might wish for concrit to help in revision. Could it possibly not be too confusing to have fic posts which vary in this way?

I do hope you’ll have time for participating! We could make the maximum word count small enough, and the comments would not have to be long reviews.

[writcraft]

I see now I think the idea is more review based than con-crit / workshopping and I'm sorry if I inadvertently distracted from your intentions with my thoughts, I was coming at the idea from a slightly different angle I think which I suspect may have confused things a little.

Having read through the comments below too I definitely agree with the suggestion that finding people who are looking for the same thing is an important first step and then once you have that, I'm sure the way the community runs could grow organically from there. I look forward to seeing how things unfold with it and I think it's great to think of different ways to engage with other fics.

[paulamcg]

Oh, that’s fine. There have been others coming from something like your angle. In fact, what’s happened is that I’ve found some people who are thinking about different ways to engage with other fics, and it seems to be hard to find people who’d be looking for the same thing. I’ll have to consider whether to try to start something soon, or to get to know more people first.

[walgesang]

I don't know how much I'd be able to participate but it piques my interest! I think Writ brings up some good points about it being locked to community members. Out of curiousity, are you thinking of fics that the author considers completed or this is a first-draft thing that they want feedback on? How do you invision the community participating in a way that is more of a discussion and less so a beta/writer interaction?

[paulamcg]

Oh, I’m so glad that you, too, find the suggestion interesting! You’re the writer who recently mentioned “ancient” fic, aren’t you? If/when you can’t post new fic, you could post an old piece, perhaps just a very small one, and then nobody would expect you to necessarily compose long reviews in return. Could you have time for reading one fic a week, if we agree on a small enough maximum word count? And it wouldn’t matter if some comments came even weeks later.

Yes, perhaps the members would like the whole community to be members-only. Or would it be possible to let each author decide every time whether to make a locked post or a public one?

(As I explain in excessive detail above) I originally thought that fic posted in the community would be rather recent but completed and polished, possibly beta’ed and already published on AO3. When I understood that some people still read in HP fandom but spend more time on writing for other fandoms, or write a long HP fic and can’t post new short HP fic once a month, I thought they could post excerpts of WiPs or even very old fic. Some threads would be discussion on a finalised fic, some more like several betas making suggestions to as well as encouraging the author. Would that possibly not be too confusing?

I do hope you’ll be able to participate in a way that suits you!

[pauraque]

Some of what you're saying sounds similar to xf_book_club, which was a comm for discussing finished and posted fics in X-Files fandom (often old classics). I wasn't active in it but it did seem to really function like a book club, with people bringing other writers' fics to read together, rather than writers themselves offering their own work for discussion. The writers weren't present in the discussions. But it sounds like you're imagining something more like a writer's workshop where authors ask directly for feedback and critique. But the fics would already be finished? Or would it be like a group beta during the writing process?

[paulamcg]

Yes, I’d like a fic club where the writers could bring their own fics of their choice and participate in the discussion. That wouldn’t mean – at least not in my case – the writer explaining what is the correct interpretation of the story, or offering any facts about the characters outside the story. Just the writer answering questions about the writing process, or acknowledging reader interpretations or some positive feedback which make the writer understand better the story or how the writing works etc. Or when having asked for it, receiving concrit.

I’ve though that each member could choose every time whether to post a completed and polished, possibly beta’ed and published fic, or a (part of a) WIP. In their headers the writers would mention what type the fic is as well as what type of feecback they’d like to have.

I remember finding your Hermione/Hermione so interesting, and you posting such excellent comments on HP Halloween that I can’t help truly hoping you’ll like to join. I hope you’ll at least read the other comments on this post and consider.

[pauraque]

Well, that's very kind of you! I have read the other comments and I think many good points have been made.

I think for me, offering my writing for group feedback is not something I'd be likely to do. Sure, I like feedback (who doesn't?) but for deep discussions and working out how to improve a story, I'm more comfortable with a one-on-one beta or brainstorming process.

I actually write a lot of concrit of fics I read, and save it in a private document. For many years this has been a part of my own learning process, analyzing what I think works and what doesn't in other people's writing. But of course, that's very different from speaking in public or directly to the author. And I don't even mean just phrasing things diplomatically, but also that what I see as a problem that I would avoid in my own writing may not be a problem for the author -- or for their intended audience.

Fanfic varies a lot in its intentions and conventions. Sometimes the community that writes a pairing likes it to be a certain way that I don't see as realistic or in character. But I'm not the intended audience, so my opinion on it may not be helpful to the author. Like, I don't enjoy horror movies, and if I watch one I may wish it were less scary -- but that would be useless feedback to the creators, because horror movies are supposed to be scary and horror fans like that.

I'm not trying to discourage you. I hope you can find a way to make it work! I think it would depend heavily on finding the right people to do it whose perspectives are compatible, though.

[paulamcg]

You haven’t ended up totally discouraging me. Thank you for not trying to do it! Resilient enough, I can’t resist pointing out that if you decided to join, you wouldn’t need to ask for such comments that would lead to deep discussions and working out how to improve a story. You could say in your headers that you’d like only brief, simple comments, like mentions of what readers liked best in your story.

It’s truly fascinating to hear about the private concrit you don’t give to the authors. I think I’d love to read such reviews on my work, no matter if it’s just things that don’t work for you while you think they might work for others (say, for R/S fans). But perhaps receiving such feedback would make me sad and more lonely, in case I still got hardly any comments from anybody who enjoys and admires my writing. But, of course, I understand that you don’t mean to share that concrit with anyone.

I’ve suspected before that I don’t participate in the fandom in some of its common ways. I don’t share many tropes or conventions with other R/S writers, and I’ve never thought that I write particularly for that audience. I’ve always thought that when my interpretations of and extrapolations from canon differ from what readers are familiar with, I only need to write well enough to make my characterisations, settings and plots convincing. Even though there are fantasy elements (also some I’ve developed further or added) in the world, I don’t think I write for any genre, just as I don’t usually read genre but rather general, literary fiction. Perhaps that's why I hardly have an audience.

Thank you for your encouragement. It’s lovely to have people like you on my journal in a conversation with me. I just can’t help wishing that my fic, too, got some attention.

[delphi]

I think it's a really interesting idea!

Just some personal notes on where I'm coming from with regard to potentially participating: I feel like my own expectations on commenting were shaped by always having written a lot of rare pairings and rare fandoms. While I definitely get fewer comments and opportunities for discussion on AO3 than I did in the heyday of HP fandom on mailing lists and journalling sites, I don't think it's the massive shift that people who wrote big pairings have seen. As a result, while I'm still interested in writing HP fic and would absolutely love the chance to have more discussions, the prospect of more feedback wouldn't necessarily be the sole deciding factor in getting me to prioritize finishing one HP story per month over the stories in other fandoms I might be working on.

Also, on the flip side of that, I'm aware that what I write might not be everyone's cup of tea. My favourite HP ships to write include characters that some people don't like reading about in romantic or sexual situations, the occasional kink that some people aren't comfortable reading at all, and some content (like underage sex) that might not be legal for some people to access depending on their jurisdictions. I wouldn't want to be the person whose posting turn everyone dreads; I consider my fic very much opt-in only.

However, while the characters and ships I really love tend to be niche, I beta-read widely and would love the opportunity to give my feedback muscles a workout. If there was some sort of membership option just for reading and commenting, I'd definitely be in.

[pauraque]

I feel like my own expectations on commenting were shaped by always having written a lot of rare pairings

Me too. Getting limited amounts of feedback feels normal to me, and I think that makes getting more feedback feel like a much less urgent goal.

[delphi]

It's a motivation question I've definitely found myself mulling over before. On about three or four occasions over the last twenty-plus years, I accidentally stumbled into writing something with a bigger audience, and while there were a lot of nice things about getting more feedback (except for once when it was Way Too Much and I could not handle the experience of being even the tiniest bit popular on Tumblr), those pluses weren't enough to make me want to write more of it. As long as I don't have reason to believe that a lack of response is down to me really embarrassingly bungling a story, knowing it made just one person happy is usually enough to flick that "success!" switch for me - I guess because I know that even in some universe where I was an amazing writer and everyone always left a comment on every fic they enjoyed, the pool of people interested in reading my pet pairings is limited. :D

[paulamcg]

I agree that knowing that one person has received the story (not just hit it and perhaps left without reading) is enough to make it some kind of a success. But I’m still not used to the kudos function, and when I get my one kudos from a guest or someone with no works or bookmarks or none in HP, I suspect that someone hit the button by mistake.

Feedback is so important to me partly because my motivation to write fanfic was originally based on the realisation that I could interact with other writers and my (other) readers as equals. A year ago I proved to myself that I am motivated to write my stories without feedback, too. But I still believe that literature (any art) is finalised by a recipient. And I yearn to be sure that at least one reader has received a fic – now that I know it’s possible because I publish on platforms where there is a pool of potential readers.

[pauraque]

Well, the universe where you're an amazing writer is this universe. :) But I get what you're saying, when you write niche stuff there's a low ceiling for feedback.

I've had the same experience with the fics I've written that got an unusually big reaction, whether because I wrote a popular pairing for once or lightning struck for some other reason. It's overwhelming to me and sucks all the fun out of it. It changes the nature of the reader-writer dynamic when you put a lot more readers into the mix, because readers can be much harsher in criticizing fics that are perceived as "successful". It's like they think, hey, you've already got so many kudos and comments, you're a big shot, you can take a little rough treatment! (Spoiler: I cannot.)

[paulamcg]

Thank you for sharing this!

The experience is different when you write a (once) popular pairing and you know (or assume) that the ceiling for feedback is not low, albeit possibly lower than in the good old days. Even in those days I never has way too much or even simply much feedback, perhaps partly because before my hiatus I wrote only up to PG-13 and usually even lower ratings than that, perhaps also because I didn’t follow the popular conventions within the popular pairing. But at least in fests I could receive about five comments, and there was always someone whose comment reassured me that my writing wasn’t bad.

I’ve had harsh concrit among the little feedback I’ve got, also as (one of) my first review(s?) on FictionAlley, and I’ve had to tell myself I shouldn’t be so sensitive and get defensive. It’s comforting to hear that even having written a “successful” fic doesn’t make everyone else immune to rough treatment (not that I’d ever wanted to offer such treatment to any kind of writers).

[paulamcg]

I wonder whether you, too, wouldn’t be dying – and trying to start a community in order – to get some feedback in case what you’ve got were limited like this: no comments and fewer than five kudos and fewer than 200 hits on almost every story by you. I’ve tried and now failed not to mention this. I honestly also love reading in order to review and to discuss other people’s writing.

[delphi]

Not to snipe the response here, but if the viewpoint from someone who's been on AO3 since it opened is helpful: hits and comments have a long tail there. While most of my stories have eventually racked up more than 200 hits and five kudos, most have done so over the course of several years, bit by bit, rather than in the first month or two of posting. Out of the ten works I posted in the last year, five have fewer than 200 hits and three have no comments. I recognize that this is very different than what folks who regularly write large pairings are used to, but like I mentioned above, I think expectations get set differently when you write a lot of rare ships and fandoms.

[paulamcg]

Thank you for helping me understand a bit better, so that perhaps I’ll be more patient, or rather relearn to just write and read and comment, not try to find readers. I haven’t really had expectations, just hopes, and these conversations here and on torino10154’s journal have made me realise (or remember) that what I write is rare in its own way.

[delphi]

I think it's perfectly understandable to be disappointed, and I really admire you for taking a solutions-focused run at the problem. :)

[paulamcg]

Thank you for wording your understanding – and more – in such a kind way! It made me feel a lot better just before I went to sleep last night.

[pauraque]

If you limited the count of kudos and comments to just what I've received during the last couple of months (since you've been using AO3) it would look like what you're describing. I doubt there's a substantial difference in the rate of feedback we're getting, it's just that I have been on AO3 much, much longer and there's been time for kudos and comments to pile up, as delphi said. Eventually even obscure fics without popular pairings or kinks collect some response, but you have to wait for the right people to find them in the course of their AO3 browsing, and that takes patience. A dripping faucet can fill a bucket given enough time.

[paulamcg]

Thank you for this understanding, illuminating and encouraging response to my whining (which I almost decided to delete).

[paulamcg]

Thank you for commenting! I’m so glad you find the idea interesting.

I’ve developed some more detailed suggestions, trying to figure out how people with different preferences and writing schedules could be more eager to participate. You wouldn’t have to finish a new HP story every month, as you could post an old fic or (a part of) a draft, if you wanted to. Or why not nothing? I think any member could as well decide not to post any fic one month or ever. If you think people might dread your offerings, you could talk about these issues in your introduction post and see whether it would be legal and otherwise fine for (some of) the other members to read what you like to write. And when posting a fic, you could mention in the header that you don’t expect everyone to comment.

It’s interesting to hear how different things people wish from other members of fandom – or how different their situations are (how perhaps they get what they want in fests or otherwise from the audience they’ve already found and managed to keep). I’ve assumed that others, too, crave for more readers and commentors, and that the best (and perhaps only) way for me to get any is to read and comment on fic by other people and show that I’m ready to do more of that – which has turned out not working either (on DW, where I hardly see any interest in R/S, or on AO3, where I hardly get more than a couple of kudos and the hits on my fic are few, too) because other people don’t follow any rules of reciprocity in the way I do. Now I thought they might, if committed to it as members of a community. Besides, I’ve hoped to reach people who are interested in discussing (attempts at) good storytelling and good writing regardless of pairings.

I’m grateful to anyone who’s so – in my view, extraordinarily – generous as to offer to read and comment without expecting reviews in return. So yes, of course, I’ll guarantee you that membership option – so you are in!

[delphi]

It’s interesting to hear how different things people wish from other members of fandom [...]

It really is! Harry Potter is such a (wonderfully) weird fandom. It was so huge in its heyday that someone could fill all their fandom time in one little corner of it and never even suspect that other trends, norms, and platforms even existed. Now, on top of the broader changes in social media and in how people access the web that has affected all of fandom, Harry Potter is in a odd space of having slowed down significantly but still putting out more new content than many current fandoms - and being filled with a mix of people who have already told twenty years' worth of stories here, people born into a world where more HP fic than they could ever read in a lifetime already existed, and everything in between. It's hard to find common ground about what we want the fandom to look like, let alone build it.

[paulamcg]

Thank you for this reply, too! It’s good to learn to understand this weirdness a bit better. But I hope it’s still possible to find and also build a (not necessarily pairing-based) corner where to read and also be read.

[delphi]

I think it definitely is possible, especially if you find a group of people who are looking for the same type of community you are and are willing to commit to it. Numbers are on your side here. I was just looking at the Remus/Sirius tag on AO3, and depending on whether you limit it to "otp:true" or not, there were between 129 and 422 new stories or chapters so far this month alone!

On the one hand, I 100% see how that results in a lot of stories like yours getting lost in the shuffle. Unlike in the old days when works were commonly split up across many more smaller archives and communities, putting it all on AO3 makes it such a high volume that even a devoted fan could check the tag every day and find more fic than they have time to read - which can result in them only clicking on the first few stories they happen to find that day, or the stories whose tags or summaries really stand out, or the ones from authors the readers know personally. And if people are only checking the tag once a week or month, or searching based on freeform tags, lots of stories just won't get eyes on them.

But on the other hand, I bet this means there are other fans of many other medium and large Harry Potter pairings besides Remus/Sirius who are experiencing the exact same thing, and who might like stepping back from that high-volume environment and reading in a space that somehow rewards spending more time with fewer stories. Those spaces can be harder to wrangle and keep the momentum up in long-term, but I think a group of like-minded people could make it work if it was giving them what they really wanted out of fandom.

[paulamcg]

It’s so kind of you to do some research like this for me and to also consider what that high volume can mean. Encouraged by you, I’ll still try to find a solution, hoping to get a bit more of what I’ve enjoyed in fandom interaction. Perhaps I could still look for like-minded people (or just a reader) among R/S fans. And it’s good to realise that others writing a (once) popular pairing might experience their work getting lost in the shuffle. Also to be prepared for set-backs ahead in case I start a community.

I think there are about five people who have expressed their interest here, and I only wonder if the things we want are similar enough.