My Top Five Editing Strategies as requested by pink_ink

[paulamcg]

Here I go again, writing about my writing, no matter what happens out there in the world. I’d love to hear how all of you write. Our writing is essential!

The way I write is very simple, just as I’ve already described here. Oh, when describing my writing process I forgot to mention research. I do check facts about real-world places, times, weather, music etc, but mainly just at the point in the story when I need them. I do have a separate document in which I make notes and paste links. (Sometimes, when I’ve decided that I want to write a story set in a particular year – e.g. the year when my character left Hogwarts – I search for music of that year before I start writing, and a song I find can work as inspiration and appear in the story.) What I don’t do is writing an outline beforehand – or any character charts, not even for original characters, not even for a chaptered fic (or I didn’t do that for the one, long chaptered fic I wrote). Almost always I write a story from the beginning to the end.

As for editing, it’s just an integral part of my daily writing of a fic, not a separate phase after completing the story. I couldn’t possibly count how many drafts I make. Or maybe I can. Three: the text as it is when I’ve just reached the end, the text after the first read-through after that, and the text I send to the beta. But there are only minor differences between these three texts and the final one, the text after I’ve made the corrections suggested by the beta (almost always all of them).

After reaching the end of the story, I usually leave the fic for a week or so (while I start something new and contact my beta – in case it’s a fest fic and beta is demanded, so that I have a reason not to be too shy to bother my beta) and then I read it again but make only the same kind of changes as I’ve kept doing while writing.

Perhaps this can be called a strategy.

And here’s finally a list of five editing situations in the order of how much pleasure I get from them.


1. Interacting with an amazing beta – and since last year I’ve had one again. liseuse has kindly helped me do the final edit every time I’ve asked her, and saved me from some embarrassing vocabulary errors, but hasn’t questioned the style or contents or suggested anything but minor corrections. This is the most rewarding stage of editing because I get brief positive feedback on how the story works for a reader, which is a treasure particularly when I get little feedback after publishing the fic.

2. Polishing my text constantly while writing. Rereading each paragraph, and every now and then from the beginning of the scene, and several times – also, of course, after reaching the end – from the very beginning. But making only minor corrections and stylistic changes, hardly ever changing the events or adding a whole sentence or more at any spot.

3. Changing the grammatical person in a WIP when I’ve tried to write it in (the more popular) third-person technique and want to give up because I’m sure that a first-person voice will work better.

4. Revising a story I wrote about fifteen years ago (before posting it on AO3) when I notice something in its style or in (minor details in) its contents doesn’t satisfy me any longer.

5. Reading a WIP on my phone on the way to work (while walking, standing at a bus stop or sitting on the bus) and making notes about details to be corrected. This is surprisingly useful because the different line breaks help me notice errors or repetitions more easily, and I sometimes get ideas for the continuation and make brief notes about those, too, on the phone.

Comments

[a_belladonna]

Research is very important! I've discovered, though, that I need to do research separately. As in, I can't just stop writing to look something up. Then my concentration will be gone and I can't get back into writing.
So if there's something I need to know, I'll have to dedicate an evening or two for research.

As for music and fic writing (which is a whole post in itself for me), I don't seek music from the era I'm writing in. Rather, I find metal songs that I feel fit the atmosphere. This is mostly because people really love to pair off Tintin with Jacques Brel's music, and that is not really my kind of music.

I also write the story from beginning to end, although I've found out that the best thing I can do, if I feel stuck, is to simply jump to the next part in the story.
I don't, however, begin editing until I've reached the end of the story, and I don't want to send anything off to beta-reading until the story is finished. Which means I have two rather long fics lying about that have a couple of "holes" in them that I feel need to be written before I can begin the actual editing and later have them beta-read.
I'm currently so lucky that my boss doesn't mind reading what I write, but I don't want him to make any suggestions to the text until I've written the entire story.
But he's acted (on some of my stories) as a "pre-beta". I don't want him to make any suggestions in regards to proper English usage of words, commas, grammar or the like - I only want him to comment on things he thinks work or if there's something that seems weird/off.

[paulamcg]

Thank you so much for your response! It’s been a long time since I compared processes with fellow authors. I do remember having the impression that a lot of fanfic writers first make an outline, then do any necessary research, and after getting started, write fast without glancing back at stylistic details like sentence structures of repetitions in vocabulary, because they know they’ll make a lot of changes later, and they can write scenes in any order. They need to seriously check for continuity in addition to polishing the language while making an improved draft or a few drafts before beta.

I suppose you mean that you do the research before starting, and - in case something new comes up that needs to be researched – stop the writing for a couple of days, and then get back to concentrating.

Hey, you should make that post about music and your fanfic! For me the music of the era started to play an important role only a year ago when I got focused on pre-Azkaban-era Marauders and realised I could rediscover something of the real-world 1970s through some songs that had been important to me and some I wish I had known back then.

It’s interesting to hear that leaving “a hole” sometimes helps you go on writing. I think I’d find it harder to write something that my character is not supposed to encounter yet. And I seldom have two WIPs at the same time.

How wonderful that you’ve got a “pre-beta”! I think a trusted reader of your early drafts is also called an alpha reader. In the early years of my fanfic writing I sometimes had a fellow writer check if a text worked before I had quite completed it. Back then the text would be an installment of the post-OotP novel, which I posted on a forum as a WIP. I worked on each installment (of about 5000 words) in the same way I now work on short stories.

[a_belladonna]

You're welcome. :) It's funny and interesting to hear about others' way of working on writing.

Re: an outline, I very rarely have that. At least on paper. What I do instead is telling the story in my head - most fics of mine essentially begin as day dreams. That way I can quickly figure out if there's enough meat on the story to begin writing it down. Sometimes I don't have the end figured out when I start, but that's less important as long as I have a clear image of the story in my mind.
I guess this shows that I probably first and foremost is an artist: I think in images a lot.

I suppose you mean that you do the research before starting, and - in case something new comes up that needs to be researched – stop the writing for a couple of days, and then get back to concentrating.

Yes, that is exactly it. :) But depending on how the writing is going, it can even be such a thing as what the proper word is in English. If I feel it'll destroy my concentration to be looking it up, I just put the Danish words in brackets and go back and look them up later. That is mostly in the first draft-part of my writing, though. At that stage it's more important to get the story out of my head - then I can always begin polishing the text afterwards.

Hey, you should make that post about music and your fanfic!

I will, at some point. :) But I think it's going to be a rather long post. Perhaps during Easter I will do it.
There's also a lot of cool 70's music, so I can understand why it feels natural to do so in fics set in that time period. I can also do it with 50's and 60's music, though. It doesn't have to more modern music only. :)

I think I’d find it harder to write something that my character is not supposed to encounter yet.

That's interesting you feel that way. It really doesn't bother me - it bothers me more when I get stuck. Also, I sometimes come back to the "hole" only to realise that that part really wasn't as important as I thought it was and that the stories work just fine without it.

I really do feel lucky, yes. I feel I've grown as a writer from getting feedback from him, although we're not always in agreement about things. But that's good, I guess. If I just adjusted everything he didn't like then it's as if I didn't have enough confidence in my work to begin with. It is my baby, after all, I should be ready to fight for (at least some of) my decisions. :)

[paulamcg]

It’s fascinating how you see your fics in images before you write them. I’m not good at that at all. Each scene becomes vivid to me only through the story text as I’m typing it and listening to the sound of the sentences in my mind. I couldn’t possibly insert words in my mother tongue, as I’m thinking in English – hearing the text in English in my mind – while I’m writing. That doesn’t mean I don’t need to sometimes fumble for the right word, check the usage, the meaning and the spelling of alternative words. But it’s no problem for me to make my characters continue after stopping them for a while.

come back to the "hole" only to realise that that part really wasn't as important And perhaps the reason you needed to skip that part was that you didn’t find it interesting or it wasn’t meaningful for your character? And you ended up writing differently from your original ideas (images) and that made the story better?

grown as a writer from getting feedback That’s one reason why I wish there were a culture of – or a corner for – concrit in my fandom. Fighting for my decisions – back in 2004 and 2005 – meant that I became more aware of how I wanted my fiction to work, and of how I needed to improve my writing to make it work better.

[a_belladonna]

Perhaps it's possible for me because Danish and English after all are quite closely related? I don't know, it's something I've done for many years - I did the same when I had to do German housework, for instance.
I mostly do it when I come to a word that isn't so easily translated and where I know I'll probably have to do more research about the proper usage. I'm also awfully easily distracted...I have been known to start looking up other words and their meanings when I go to look up one word. *g*

Yes and no - it is only by skipping the parts that I realise that I don't need them. When I plot out the story they feel important. But at the same time I don't feel the story changes that much - except perhaps becoming a bit tighter in the narrative. :)

That’s one reason why I wish there were a culture of – or a corner for – concrit in my fandom.

Concrit is enourmously important. I dare say the times I've learned most has been when people say "I really like so and so, but you need to work on this and that". It just seems as if many people are very afraid or wary of receiving concrit. In a way I understand them, because there are too many people who don't know how to give concrit and end up just being dicks and rude.
Also, it is "just" a hobby and something for fun, so I can also understand if many people (perhaps especially younger people in fandom) aren't too interested in that part - they're here to have fun, not to be lectured like in school.
I just can't shake the feeling that there used to be a concrit community in HP, but perhaps I'm wrong.

[paulamcg]

Oh yes, I, too, sometimes end up spending a lot of time researching other words or other facts in addition those which made me interrupt writing. But I’m usually not in a hurry to return to my characters.

I agree. Concrit is important, but it can also be painful. I seem to forget how hard it was to receive any without feeling wounded and becoming too defensive. Now my beta points out only small, obvious errors and never suggests that I change anything bigger. And I don’t seriously look for or plan to start any concrit community. Nowadays it’s hard enough to get any more detailed feedback than kudos, let alone other than positive comments (or more detailed replies to detailed praise than "I’m glad you enjoyed it"). I don’t want to complain. It’s wonderful to see that some people have read my fic and some of them even left kudos.

[a_belladonna]

Indeed. It can really hurt if it's something you've really worked hard on and it is difficult not to become a little defensive.
But I'm still grateful for the person who once told me something along the lines of "your story is good, but the grammar is all over the place, it really needs to be tightened up." That the person then offered to beta read my stories and almost taught me more about English than my English teachers had done at school was just an added bonus. :)

I try to leave more detailed feedback but it's a fine line. There's for instance a story I recently read where Captain Haddock's sweater is described as being "a blouse" and I really want to point out to the writer that a blouse is not something an old sea lion would be wearing, that it is a rather female piece of clothing in English. But one has to tread carefully so as to not inadvertedly hurt the other person.
I think you're right that in today's fandoms feedback has changed a lot since the early 00's. (For instance my receipient in Smutty Claus never commented on the thing I did for them. I've never experienced that before.)

[paulamcg]

Now I can’t resist this chance to mention the hurt I felt fifteen years ago and haven’t been able to erase from my memory. Someone whose stories I’d admired and whom I finally got to read one by me did not point out errors in grammar, which I’d have been happy to correct, but advised me never to write first-person narrative and to stop writing about Remus as poor. Needless to say, I didn’t follow the advice. I cried and went on, developing my first-person style and the way of showing Remus’s poverty less blantantly.

Even though most of my comments on AO3 are somehow detailed, I don’t include concrit. When I feel the story is well-written and the writer has shown some interest in conversation, I can send a private message mentioning an error – like typo – I’ve spotted.

I noticed a big difference in a particular fest which I’d participated on Livejournal in the good old days. R/S Small Gifts had always been a heartwarming experience: I’d felt I received several gifts, not only the fic or art based on my prompt but comments on my fic (even though it was without sex) from… perhaps half of the participants. Now the fest is on DW and AO3, posts the fics on both. Last December I went overboard and in addition to my assignment I wrote three extra gifts. Two of the giftees didn’t respond even with kudos. One commented on DW, one on AO3, and the mods commented on two of the stories if I remember correctly. Otherwise my fic went unnoticed, even though I commented on a lot of works, and on everyone’s introduction in the advent of the fest. Oh, I’ve just checked and seen that my assignment fic received six comments on DW, so I must be satisfied. It seems I easily remember the disappointments most clearly.

My point is that perhaps we shouldn’t take the lack of feedback from even the giftee personally. It could be that now that the fandom is spread on several platforms – even within one fest – people might not follow or return to check out their gift.

[a_belladonna]

People can be so mean, when there's a screen between us. :( I was also once told that my art was "barely above the level of stick-figures".
You did the right thing, IMO. When people are saying that kind of things, it's better to straighten one's back and continue.

You're probably right about the fandom having been spread out being part of it. I also think that people have become accustomed to leaving a 'like' instad of a comment because of sites like Facebook and Tumblr. Personally, I savour every kudos I receive. :)

[paulamcg]

Thank you! I don’t think that the writer fifteen years ago meant to be mean; I was just too sensitive and interpreted the words as harsh. But how could anyone say that about your art! I think the closest to rudeness I’ve experienced has been just being ignored. And now I’ve learnt not only to know but also to feel that getting kudos doesn’t mean being ignored, on the contrary!

[a_belladonna]

True; sometimes things can come out a bit more clumsily when writing. Perhaps that's what happened back then?
And yes, I still don't understand why she felt the need to tell me that. I think the person was busy trying to become a "big name" in fandom or something.

Being ignored also hurts, yes. And in that regard kudos are great, because it's such an easy way to show your appreciation of a work. :)

[paulamcg]

Yes, I suppose I must conclude that the kudos function – which I didn’t first like at all, because there’s no natural way to thank for it and to continue the interaction – is great. Because even I can’t interpret it wrong. I don’t know about your case back then, but I guess I can lay the blame on myself, as I sought acknowledgment from someone who was at least closer to BNF than I was.

[pink_ink]

thank you for this post!! i love hearing about other peoples' writing :D

i work in a very similar manner. lately i've been trying out other forms of structuring my writing (write up a draft, use Manuskript etc), but i'm not sure if it's working out... i'm thinking of going back to my former "write from beginning to end, then edit" process bc it simply ... feels right.

i'm asking out of genuine curiosity, why do you prefer writing first-person? i have a difficult time writing them, but i enjoy reading first-person narratives. i think the limited perspective can make a story so much more interesting.

also, which app(s?) do you use for revising on your phone? i think the different line break thing is a great point. i used to print out my stuff wayyyy back in the day, just so i could read it in a different format before posting.

[paulamcg]

Thank you for commenting and telling me about your writing! Here’s my long reply.

it simply ... feels right. (feels in original italics!) Yes! I suppose that, to a great extent, my writing is based on feeling. That must be the reason also for why I prefer writing first-person narratives. I’m happily surprised to hear you enjoy reading them (not necessarily mine, but…:)) And I’m glad to satisfy your curiosity.

First of all, I must have written all my fanfic using limited perspective – and only in a few short stories combining two (only in one fic more than two) perspectives (in some stories a first-person voice and another character’s third-person voice, in some two or – in one fic – more first-person voices). My extensive post-OotP novel is in Remus’s third-person voice except his autobiographical letters to Harry naturally in his first-person voice. My third person is always as close to the viewpoint character’s experience as the first-person narrative is.

It simply is my preference to get and to take my reader to share the character’s experience. I prefer this in my reading, too. I agree with you: it can make a story so much more interesting – make it feel more real, because in real life we can’t suddenly be someone else or omniscient. Perhaps one reason for my preference is that I’ve never been even close to as much into watching films or TV shows as I’ve been into reading fiction and immersing myself in the fictional lives conveyed by written language only.

I’m glad you asked about this right now, because yesterday I finished reading Of Mice and Men, impressed by how Steinbeck made me feel and share what the characters experience in the story even though he used third-person narrative and not a close one but an onlooker’s view. At the opening – as well as the few other changes of setting – I felt a bit impatient when I had to visualise the details of the setting, which I felt did not even exist yet because there was nobody experiencing them. But of course, his descriptions are so vivid that he won me over. And the dialogue and the observations of the characters are so excellent that we really don’t need to have an access to the any character’s thoughts. Now I feel I should take a challenge of writing a Marauder fic in that technique.

Finally, as for why I often choose a first-person and not a third-person voice. It… simply feels right :)! I guess I ended up developing a first-person-and-present-tense technique in my first short fics, because I wrote them at the same time (in 2004 and 2005) when the letters, which naturally started like that, became a more and more important part of the (basically third-person-and-past-tense) novel. My Sirius’s voice became familiar to me like that, and only recently have I written it also in third person – and mainly to experiment whether that would appeal to more readers.

Finally… Perhaps this makes me sound like a lazy or incompetent writer, but I find it a lot easier to write slash, particularly in scenes where there’s a lot of action with another character’s body parts as the object, when I don’t have to refer to the two main characters with the same pronouns.

I’m surprised to count that as many as seven out of my 37 fics on AO3 are in third person (and one fest-fic has five third-person voices in subsequent scenes). But a lot of my older fics are not up there yet.

Oh, yes, I remember printing out my novel installments in 2004. (By the way, I worked on each about-5000-word-long installment in the same way I now work on short stories.) I’m still not good at using the latest technology. I use no apps for reading my fic on the phone! Every evening I simply copy and paste from my Libre Office Writer file onto a private Livejournal post so that I can read online, and I make quick notes on the phone’s notepad.