Challenge: Be Kind, Reach Out, Give More Now

[paulamcg]

I’ve fully enjoyed my first time in the Snowflake Challenge. I’m a bit late with this last one, but now I’ve done all these fifteen challenges and the friending meme (making still more friends – welcome!) Thank you, our illustrious mods and all other fabulous snowflakes!

Challenge #15

In your own space, create your own challenge.

My challenge is to find new ways to interact more with fandom people in ways which each of us find pleasant and inspiring. I want to do my best to be kind and try to understand different perspectives.

The reason I am here – now on DW (and AO3 and LJ) – is that the HP fandom showed me almost seventeen years ago how rewarding it can be to share our fiction and (other) art in a community. I’m here for fanwork-related interaction. I shouldn’t be ashamed to put it mote bluntly, as I’ve seen I’m not the only one: I yearn for feedback on my fic. But I also enjoy reciprocity – mutual reviewing relationships, just chatting about each other’s and our own writing. I’ve assumed that all fanwork creators want to have long, detailed discussions on their work, but that’s probably not true. Perhaps some people are happy with kudos and not eager to reply to comments, and I want to respect such an attitude, too.

A couple of weeks ago I looked more closely at those people’s AO3 profiles and lists of works who had left kudos for my fic. (It’s confused me a bit that most of those people seem not to be in the HP fandom, or not to post any fic or even bookmark any. But) when I found someone who’d written HP fic, I read a story, and as I liked it, I left a comment, mentioning in parentheses how I’d found my way there and appreciated the kudos but wondered what they’d liked about my fic. And that writer replied to the comment, commented on my fic and – after I’ve reciprocated again – has now commented on two other fics by me. I don’t expect something like this to happen every time when I try to be kind, reach out and give more. But this can be one idea someone else, too, might want to try when seeking more interaction.

Comments

[malenkayacherepakha]

I love this challenge, especially the idea of reciprocity (although feedback on fics in any form is always appreciated!). I've had some great experiences beta'ing and chatting through people fics and would love to keep developing those kind of relationships.

I really like the idea of looking at the profiles of people who've interacted with my fics, it sounds like a great way to discover writers who run in different circles and who I might not have otherwise found.

[paulamcg]

I’m glad you like this one, just as I like yours! I hope that I’ll have something to offer as a beta or at least as a chatter in case such relationships develop. And yes, feedback is what we love!

Of course, I wasn’t only being kind when giving feedback to someone who’d given me kudos. I hoped to get more for myself, too. But as I don’t always get it, what I’ve done remains as an act of kindness, doesn’t it?

When I look for fic on AO3 – fic about the characters I’m most interested in, or fic by people I’ve met on DW – I’m more likely to read fic by writers who’ve replied to the comments they’ve got, even though I still can’t know if they ever read their readers’ or anyone’s fic, let alone comment. At least I can assume I’ve given them something they enjoy. I’d like to also focus on reading and commenting on fic which has not got comments yet. All this of course only when I honestly like the fic or something about it.

[author_by_night]

For me, there were actually instances, seventeen years ago, where I'd outright IM people whose work I'd like. Sometimes they were weirded out, but in some cases I made good friends. Yet I wouldn't do that now. Partly because I don't IM anymore, but... I just wouldn't, honestly. And I think that's kind of sad. I miss making friends through fanworks we enjoyed, and I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with saying on a more personal level "hey, I really like this." But I think fandom is a little more removed than it used to be. Even if back then, it backfired a few times. I found out one "friend" who I used to IM actually kind of hated me.* However, that was on him. Again, I also made some friends through doing that. So there you go.

*Which has also completely destroyed his fanfic for me. I can't even bear to read it. I was friends with a slightly younger fan who he beta read for, and she really missed him when he went AWOL. I kind of wondered if he secretly disliked her too, which breaks my heart to think, because she was so awesome and such a great writer. I never told her what he said about me because I didn't want her to wonder the same, you know?

I miss comments on fanfic. Even if they're constructive criticism. (Though I wouldn't assume everyone wants them. I love it, but I write for leeches to bleed me out mercilessly. A lot of people are just trying to have a good time, and that's their right.) It's also such a great way to connect, and maybe a tad more boundary friendly than outright messaging. Either way, you're right, there is something special about that.

[malenkayacherepakha]

This is really interesting to me - I haven't been around in fandom long enough to notice the shifts in behaviour and culture so I'm always fascinated to hear about them.

My challenge was also to connect more with people in fandom, and I've been wondering about the best ways to do that. I was toying with the idea of IM'ing people (on tumblr or discord) - I'd maybe feel a bit self-conscious doing it (and would worry that I was annoying people!) but it certainly seemed like the most direct way to start conversations with people, so it's interesting that you wouldn't necessarily do it now. Leaving more in depth comments could be a good alternative.

[paulamcg]

In my reply to this comment by author_by_night I describe how I used to send personal messages (as far as I can remember) first mainly to inform the writers of typos or other such minor mistakes. That might seem strange, but I guess there was no reason not to share all my praise in public. With some writers, who liked detailed and deep discussion on completed fics and/or WiPs, I continued in emails. That was about fifteen years ago!

No use thinking about how to get back in time! I still haven’t figured out how Tumblr and Discord work. Yesterday I actually made a Discord account so as to look for information on a fest, but it was all confusing. But I trust we can develop our connections here and now.

[spikedluv]

Great challenge, and well worth attempting. I liked your example about the reciprocity of commenting leading to conversation leading to more commenting.

[paulamcg]

Thank you! I’m glad if my example perhaps encourages you to attempt this challenge.

[paulamcg]

Thank you for commenting and sharing so much about your experiences and your emotions! Yes, there is something special about connecting through our fiction. When sensitive readers have expressed their interpretations of my stories, or I’ve been touched by someone’s writing, and we’ve continued the discussions, the interaction has become rewarding and inspiring and in some cases more intimate and meaningful for me than any other human contact I’ve had at that period. That must be because I take my writing so seriously. I really mean what I say and try my best to say it as well as possible so as to convey and evoke something that touches the reader. But I understand that not everyone is so terribly serious!

Of course, not everyone wants constructive criticism, not even private concrit. Sometimes when I’m reading a fascinating and well-written story, I still feel like informing the writer of a typo or other tiny error I’ve noticed. I used to find it normal to send a personal message to let the writer now about such mistakes. In the small forum and still on FA, I think, in 2003 – 2005, I had the impression that writers regarded such PMs as proof that someone felt their stories were excellent and worth being polished. In this way I must have ended up becoming friends with people who also truly cared about their fics.

Yes, relationships between fellow writers are important – and can also make us vulnerable. I think they’re worth taking a risk, although perhaps it would be safer to just read and write and have fun. It’s wonderful how considerate you were towards that younger writer, and I guess we’ll never forget some disappointments – and some sweet friends.

[sperrywink]

Nice challenge! My corner of active fandom in Glee is small enough that we mostly know each other, but it is a fabulous idea to go through and comment on stuff if I haven't already.

[paulamcg]

Thank you! In my early fandom days I enjoyed my small corner (a small HP forum), where we all knew each other and welcomed newbies on their introduction threads and encouraged them to share fanfic. There was something to appreciate in everyone’s contribution. I’m glad if this idea works for you, too, even though I came up with it in the vastness of HP fandom on AO3.

[muccamukk]

A long time ago, some one said that the best way to get comments was to comment widely, which engendered good will and positive associations with your user name. Having a commenting policy in your profile sometimes helps too.

People also seem to get some chatter if they talk about writing process on DW when they post the fic announcement. I never remember to do it. I kind of miss the DVD Commentary memes. Those were fun.

[paulamcg]

Thank you for your thoughtful comment! Now I remember having heard that advice about commenting widely… Perhaps on Livejournal, and perhaps it worked well there when the fics were on personal journals and on LJ communities. I also say in my profile: I’m sure to reply to any comments, as I love discussing fic, also fic written by my readers. I’m not sure if it’s the best (way of wording a) commenting policy, but it’s true.

they talk about writing process on DW when they post the fic announcement I could consider that! Since late December I’ve had these wonderful discussions on my journal, but no comments on my fic posts here. However, when I publish fic, I want to let it speak for itself and to chat about it only after a reader has started the discussion. Perhaps I could say something about the writing process – something that could interest other writers and make them comment (without any need to read the fic).

[chez_jae]

Come for the fanfic, stay for the friends!

:)

[paulamcg]

That sounds lovely! I’m afraid I’m still staying for the fic – but when I have these contacts with people, I start spending more and more of my fandom time on chatting with them, composing my replies to comments on these discussion posts, and this makes me at least as happy as making progress with a story.

[writcraft]

This is a lovely challenge to set yourself!

I've really enjoyed discovering your work although I haven't had chance to read everything yet and have very much enjoyed our conversations. I'm really glad reaching out on AO3 worked well and invited further dialogue, that is a really good suggestion.

[paulamcg]

Thank you for telling me that you, too, like the challenge and the suggestion. You’ve seen how much I enjoy dialogue. I’m glad I dared comment on your writing beyond fanfiction and we started our conversations. Your feedback gave me more confidence to reach out. And the My History function on AO3 helps me keep track on all the fics I’ve decided to read :)

[lee_bella]

When I comment on a fanwork I like, I have zero expectation about hearing back from the writer or the artist. More often than not, that's how it goes, and I don't mind that as long as the writer or artist knows that someone appreciates their work.

I find it hard to write a proper reply to comments about my stories. The most I could manage is a simple thank you, and I'm not sure if the commenters care either way. If the commenter asks a question, I'll answer properly, of course.

Sometimes the comments are so short that I really don't have much to say. I want to say something profound and interesting, but I just couldn't find the right words. Sometimes it's a little more complicated.

I try to avoid discussing my stories at length nowadays; I don't want to influence the readers too much about what I want to convey in my stories. I would rather let the readers decide for themselves how they want to read my stories. If they get what I'm going for, that's great. If their interpretation of the story doesn't quite align with my ideas, that's fine too. Once you publish a story for the world to see, the story no longer entirely belongs to you. It lives on in other people's mind, and different people think things differently.

[paulamcg]

Thank you for your valuable contribution! Something like this is exactly what I need so as to understand different perspectives.

For me it’s always been important to hear back from the writer or the artist. (That was why I never even read the Shoebox Project, which every fan of Remus/Sirius knew back in 2004: it was so famous that I felt there was no way to get the writers’ attention.) This is probably not very rational. Perhaps I just crave feedback so badly (outside fandom, too) that I want comments even on my comments. Or perhaps it’s that I feel the point of reading fanfic is the chance to interact with the writer as an equal. Otherwise I could as well read fiction by Nobel-prize winners and write comments in my diary.

Anyway, the point here is that I’m now learning to understand that not everyone who comments on my fic expects a thank-you note and is overjoyed by a detailed reply. Myself I appreciate a simple thank you or a heart, too. And you’ve now given me the idea that I could include a question in my comment so as to make the writer reply. I think on LJ some writers used to reply also because this doubled the number of comments on the post, and at least on some fests there must have been some comparing and competition for popularity between writers. (By asking a question in my reply to a comment I could sometimes make the same reader post a further comment, and this increased both the quality and the quantity of the feedback.)

I would rather let the readers decide for themselves how they want to read my stories. Yes! That’s what I want, too. But perhaps somehow I’m so good at babbling that I can write a long reply to a comment without declaring my own interpretation of my fic, or if I refer to how I read my fic, that’s what I call it – an interpretation, not more valuable or true than any reader’s. You say it so well: the story no longer entirely belongs to you. It lives on in other people's mind. I can say something like how glad I am a particular scene worked for the reader, because it was a challenge to write, or how the words they’ve chosen to describe a character’s emotion make me understand him better… And so on :)

[logospilgrim]

That's a wonderful challenge <3

[paulamcg]

Thank you! I’m so glad you like this.